DeepaRaya? Sacrilegious!
This is nothing short of an outrage. Sacriligeous! How dare they compare Eid ul-Fitr (The Feast of Fitrah) to a Hindu festival? Yes, if the Hindus want to celebrate their festival, that is their business. No Muslim have the right to prevent or stop them from their celebration. However to lump it together with Eid ul-Fitr is an offence against the doctrine of tawheed itself. Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! I denounce this with all my heart, my soul and my mind.
This is Ramadhan, the Blessed Month where all prayers are consented and I pray, with fervent hopefulness, “May Allah punish the ones responsible for this craziness with the due punishment! Ameen!”
Mamu’s entry on the topic certainly provides much more thought on the issue. I like his statement in the last paragraph.
Updated 07/11/2005: The Mufti of Perak’s office have issued a statement concurring with the above and says that it is HARAAM (forbidden) to even use the word “DeepaRaya” for Muslims. Now, unless someone wants to argue with the Mufti, I will consider the matter as final.
The last time I checked, the word “Raya” has nothing to do with “Eid ul-Fitr”. Plus, the term DeepaRaya was coined by a Bangsa Malaysia which the objective of awareness that these two occasions are happening within the same period. Also a powerful marketing tool used during the sales during the period. There is absolutely nothing wrong with such a term unless you have an IQ equivalent to a dead walrus.
Comment by Din — October 22, 2005 @ 4:24 pm
Oh, yeah, sure. So next time you see the word “Raya”, please go ahead and celebrate Christmas instead. Sheesh.
“Raya” has always been traditionally referred to Eid al-Fitr, and this is how it is understood by Malaysians. How can anyone say otherwise? Unless, of course, one has an IQ equivalent to a dead walrus.
As for Bangsa Malaysia, that is a irreligious ideal that is based on secularism, and hence is not the point of discussion.
- MENJ
Comment by menj — October 22, 2005 @ 5:52 pm
Again, hypocrisy of the highest order from a person claiming to defend the muslim faith. All this righteous talk you find it ok to berate someone who has just recently passed away. Get a life dude.
Comment by theone — October 22, 2005 @ 7:46 pm
Deepavali is actually Deevalii. Raya etymologically is of Hindu origin. So Deepa Raya is all hindu and doesn’t hurt me at all. It’s more of a commercial creativity that has got nothing to do with religion.
Comment by bangmat — October 22, 2005 @ 7:49 pm
Yup, dont see a reason why Christmas celebrations should not be described as ‘Raya’. Simply put, your religion is not the only one in this world.
Guess what? You religion may be the most important thing to you, but nobody else gives a damn. Why? Because it is not their religion.
If you do not like the direction of things in Malaysia, feel free to move to the middle east then.
Comment by eVi| — October 22, 2005 @ 11:23 pm
We are not living alone in this world. We are Malaysian. Actually, its nothing to do with religion. Its just the matter how you think and treat this matter. Dont be too extreme. We are living in a multiracial country.
When I was in university, i have a friend. A muslim. He prayed 5 times a day, fast during ramadhan. But he’s humble. Very humble. We can share everything. His religion doesn’t condemn others religion.. and he’s a Muslim, Menj.. just like you.. but I respect him better than i respect you. Sorry Menj.
Comment by loudspeaker — October 23, 2005 @ 2:41 am
Menj, The Tawheed Pundit,
May I ask you what do you mean by Mamu’s entry provids much more thoughts on this issue. your post is an exact clone of his.
By the way, Eid el-Fitr has nothing to do with tawheed. (You are free to prove me wrong)
Comment by Shalini.S.N.Nair — October 23, 2005 @ 6:32 pm
Oh? I don’t think anyone else thinks too as much of it as you do. They’ve done plenty of kongsi raya in the past. Promotes Malaysia’s multiracial community, and give the malls reason for a sale. Don’t pray to punish them Oo.
Comment by Sei — October 24, 2005 @ 11:24 pm
“Oh, yeah, sure. So next time you see the word “Rayaâ€, please go ahead and celebrate Christmas instead. Sheesh.”
I fail to see the point in your sarcastic reply.
““Raya†has always been traditionally referred to Eid al-Fitr, and this is how it is understood by Malaysians. How can anyone say otherwise? Unless, of course, one has an IQ equivalent to a dead walrus.”
What’s wrong with other people using the word “raya” too? It means to celebrate, or the act of celebration of a joyous occasion, correct? If others want to use the word, so long as their meaning is unoffensive, it should be alright. We shouldn’t be selfish.
“As for Bangsa Malaysia, that is a irreligious ideal that is based on secularism, and hence is not the point of discussion.”
This last statement of yours, I disagree with. Malaysia can claim herself to be an Islamic state, but realistically speaking (and from my observations too), we are far, FAR away from being an Islamic state.
Furthermore, what’s wrong with something that is promoting racial integration and harmony? We’re not proselytizing others, and neither are they proselytizing us.
Bangsa Malaysia is an interesting, and a unifying concept.
Comment by Wan Zafran — October 25, 2005 @ 4:04 pm
berfikiran SEMPIT..
Comment by hamba Allah — October 26, 2005 @ 1:43 am
Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous! Sacriligeous!
How much has the world changed now?
Comment by lionel — October 27, 2005 @ 8:34 pm
No one is comparing the two holidays, MENJ. That was always your job.
Where is the tolerance that Islam teaches? Live in a box why don’t you, possibly the only halaal and inoffensive environment for you.
Comment by lionel — October 27, 2005 @ 8:52 pm
I’m guilty of laughing and telling jokes that demean religions, even my own christian religion, but i look at it as a joke. i think a joke is a joke and as long as there’s a underlying respect for the people that believe in their own religion, it should be fine. i personally hate the people that repeatedly/forcefully try to convert you into their religion and unfortunately its the christians that usually do that. but still i am a christian.
Back to the issue about deepa raya, i’d just like to point out that its been done before, with the kongsi raya (chinese new year and hari raya celebrations together) many years ago and i do not think that there was such a big fuss over that. I do not see any difference between kongsi-raya, deepa-raya or konsi-vali/deepa-kongsi or even merry-raya. i mean all different religions believe in different things and i guess its not right to denounce the government, even with all their stupidity and mind-boggling actions such as the AP issues, for trying to promote togetherness and racial integration.
a final word, if anyone refuses with all their heart to be tolerant each of the different races, please please please please please (!!!!!!!!) migrate to a country that only have your own religion in it and dont spoil it for the more understanding people in malaysia.
Comment by asdf — October 27, 2005 @ 11:43 pm
You totally miss the point… Syawal is a celebration of victory and Eidul Fitri is a celebration of all our achievements in Ramadhan. During Ramadhan we perform the fast and ibadah and basically learn the value of patience and tolerance. By being such a closed minded individual you have effectively defeated the purpose of Syawal.
People like you are the ones who cause such a beautiful religion like islam to be misconstrued as an oppressive religion. Please… stop being such a cultural imperialist.
Remember that the Al-Quran advocates tolerance, acceptance, peace and harmony. The jihad that the prophets fight for are to be drawn upon as example that intolerance and close mindedness cause more mayhem than anything else.
May Allah s.w.t open up your heart and mind and allow you to value acceptance and tolerance. Amin.
Comment by Siti — October 27, 2005 @ 11:52 pm
Raya = Celebrate
If Raya has always been referred to Aidilfitri?
Then I suppose, Kerjaraya and Jalanraya should be banned from the malay dictionary then.
Comment by Flyz — October 28, 2005 @ 12:25 am
Clearly, Malaysia needs less people like yourself, who in fact replicate the very religious bigotry of others that you seem to denounce. What’s more, it’s a joke that you forget that the glory days of Islamic civilisation that intolerant ideologue like you preached, was founded upon a multiculturalism that allowed the free practice of other faiths, while being fully Islamic. May the Almighty One have merciful of one such as you
Comment by Against ideologues — October 28, 2005 @ 12:47 am
Dont forget too, the height of science were drawn from ideas from the Greeks, while develping maths on their own, all part of a multicultural environment of mutual sharing and learning that you reject so very foolishly.
Comment by Against ideologues — October 28, 2005 @ 12:51 am
“Minds of moderate calibre ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond their range.”
~François, Duc de la Rochefoucauld (1613-1680), Maxims
Comment by Sharlini N — October 28, 2005 @ 5:12 am
“Little things affect little minds.” ~ Benjamin Disraeli.
The deepa-raya non-issue shows what kind of mind you have. But it’s good that you will spend this much effort on such an ‘issue’. Let the others handle the important issues, as you obviously can’t handle them.
Comment by Blub — October 28, 2005 @ 5:25 am
From a foreign perspective I always thought Raya signified the end of the fasting month of Ramadan, and the term Deeparaya is used as the end of fasting and Deepavali usually coincide on the calendar.
Honestly I think you expect people to respect you and Islam you should learn to respect other peoples religions and beliefs, Deepavali is the biggest religious celebration in the Hindu calendar and should be treated with due respect.
As they fall in the same period everyone can celebrate together in a racially/religious tolerant fashion no?
Comment by ShaolinTiger — October 28, 2005 @ 9:53 am
What about Gongxi Raya or Kongsi Raya or whatever they call it? The one where Raya is celebrated with Chinese New Year. That’s OK right MENJ?
No, it is NOT “okay.
- MENJ
Comment by haslina hassan — October 28, 2005 @ 11:36 am
Take it easy Bro, no need to get stressed out over minor things such as the term “Raya”. It’s not as if we have to fast or anything before hari pilihanraya, right?
By the way, happy holidays to you.
Comment by tigerjoe — October 28, 2005 @ 1:52 pm
Deepa-raya means nothing to me… coz i don’t celebrate raya, i celebrat Eidulfitr.
C’mon man, it’s only a word, made up by some capitalist to gain some money over the celebration. don’t like it, ignore it.. simple as that.
IT’S ONLY A WORD.
Comment by hafizismail — October 28, 2005 @ 4:24 pm
This isn’t exactly a constructive reply, but nonetheless, MENJ, have the decency (and guts( to reply to the arguments presented before you.
Comment by Kel — October 30, 2005 @ 4:37 am
Respect others’ religion as other will respect yours. Why do u have to bother about little things like this? Go do something big, make your religion proud of u. Doing something like this creates a negative thought in my mind about some of the muslims. A good religion creates a good civilization…but u…plz for your God sake, open up ur mind.
Comment by qwerty — October 31, 2005 @ 12:41 am
MENJ sir,
You’re taking the situation with quite a misunderstanding. No one is comparing Eid is Deepavali, let alone lumping them as one [you don’t see Muslim flooding Batu Caves, or Hindus filling up Mosques, do you?]. I fail to see the sacrilege you mentioned. The term Deepa Raya and/or Gong Xi Raya is just there to remind us that we welcome everyone should they wish the rejoice in our celebrations.
Sure, we celebrate Eidul Ftiri from our victory against nafsu during Ramadhan. Is there any reason to hinder our non-muslim friends from being happy for our achievement? And do you mean it is wrong for us to share the cheer for their vistory of Light over Darkness? Do you not rejoice if your son [should you have one] gets straight As for his exams? Did your friends not laugh with you and celebrate your success? The same concept applies.
Malaysians have been known to the rest of the world for a being a people of tolerance. You don’t really see many countries with such a myriad of colour and creed living and progressing the way we do. We tolerate and respect and give way for each other. We all wish to be a harmonious flow of individual colours, not a boiled down in a melting pot into a hideous looking rojak.
I always respected your deep insights on the scene of Muslim here in Malaysia, but this is a crying shame. I am honestly dissapointed.
A painting is beautiful because each colour retains itself, and complements the other colours as well. Should you attempt to mix all colours together, they will only end up as black paint.
Comment by Silencers — October 31, 2005 @ 8:29 pm
MENJ, I can’t see what the fuss is all about. To me, religion is about substance, not style. If we followed your logic, it would be best if Muslims didn’t attend Deepavali open houses, and didn’t invite non-Muslims to their own Hari Raya open houses, wouldn’t it?
DeepaRaya is just a word, and it reflects our multicultural and multireligious heritage. If people used this as an excuse to get Muslims to participate in Hindu rituals of worshipping Krishna, etc., I would see your point, but DeepaRaya and Kongsi Raya are just words. What’s the fuss?
John, I am in *NO WAY* implying that there shouldn’t be mutual visitations between the adherants of these religionist faiths during their respective festive seasons. I oppose the usage of such terms, yes, but I will not impede religious understanding and harmony between faiths.
- MENJ
Comment by johnleemk — November 1, 2005 @ 1:41 am
MENJ says Hari Raya Aidilfitri and Chinese New Year not OKAY??? But why? Chinese New Year is a CULTURAL and not religious celebration. Try telling it’s not okay to celebrate the two together to our 100 million saudara Islam in China who are Chinese and therefore celebrated Chinese New Year. In fact, try telling that to Datuk Haji Mustapha Ma, whose father Datuk Haji Ibrahim Ma Tien Ying is a pendakwah Islam from China and whose ancestors have been Muslims since zaman sahabat Saad bin Abi Waqqas (at a time when my ancestors were still Hindus), and who is president of Allied Coordinating Committee of Islamic NGOs (ACCIN).
Comment by haslina hassan — November 2, 2005 @ 11:32 am
Din, I was about to say the same thing…”there is absolutely nothing wrong with such a term unless you have an IQ equivalent to a dead walrus”.
Menj, if you don’t like it, disregarded it and move on…it does not make you less Muslim by using the term.
Sigh, I guess sometimes some people think that they are still living in middle east desert. Open up your eyes and see that you in a multi culture society. Deepa Raya is a great way to use 2 long words (Selamat Hari Deepavali and Selamat Hari Raya Aidilfitri) for commercial use unless you are a real “katak dibawah tempurung”
By the way, to use back mahaguru’s words the other round: “It is one thing for the Muslims to celebrate their religious festival on their own but to associate it with Deepavali, Hindu’s celebration of the triumph of good over evil is simply sacriligeous!!!
Now, how do you feel Menj?
Comment by Balajoe — November 2, 2005 @ 4:39 pm
And by the way, Mahaguru is a bloody coward by raising his entry without any concern for Hindus by stating “It is preposterous to equate Allah with manmade idols ,statuettes and any mankind inspired ideas of his or her own fantasies!”
For one idiot who don’t understand a single thing about Hinduism, I hope he rather keep his foul comments to himself rather putting it up in the blogsphere (and by the way, demostrated how “great” he is as a Muslim)
Comment by Balajoe — November 2, 2005 @ 4:47 pm
hmm…whatever happened to open-minded muslims? GEEZ!
deeparaya is merely a word joined together to tell everyone that these two celebrations will coincide around the same time.
I oppose the usage of such terms, yes, but I will not impede religious understanding and harmony between faiths.
YOU ALREADY ARE AGAINST RELIGIOUS UNDERSTANDING AND HARMONY BETWEEN FAITHS JUST BY “WAGING JIHAD”.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH DEEPAVALI ANYWAY? HARI RAYA SO GOOD MUST STAND BY ITSELF KAH? That’s just YOU being SELFISH.
YOU remind me of PAS members who make FUSS out of NOTHING.
my muslim friends don’t care about “deeparaya”. why should YOU?
PRICK!
Comment by silveraven — November 2, 2005 @ 5:44 pm
honestly i think that u just lack attention…or if u really want to do something about things collect some money, buy a one way ticket to palestine and try helping ur brothers there. i am not saying tht its the only way, but instead of writing in a blog, i think it wud be a better option. ur too twisted that u think too narrowly thts wht i think..or ur just enjoying the attention tht ur getting?
Comment by Alam — November 4, 2005 @ 6:00 pm
[…] Nevertheless, I think Rajan Seri MENJ is right in one thing. Nobody can stop the others from minding their own business. Hindus can go on to celebrate Deepavali no matter how this my idiotic good friend and yang sewaktu dengannya called Hindu the faith that indulges in polytheism or idol worshipping. For this alone, we will consider upgrading MENJ’s Rajanship to Rajan Seri Paduka. […]
Pingback by Ada apa dengan ShinShin ? :: Shalom Deepavali and Merry Aidilfitri ! :: November :: 2005 — November 5, 2005 @ 12:13 am
“…together with Eid ul-Fitr is an offence against the doctrine of tawheed itself…”
Its hard to see things from one perspective, MENJ. As I mention before DO NOT ignore from Fikh and Tasauf part also when making assumption.
Comment by Eunose — November 5, 2005 @ 7:18 pm
The very words you are using to relay your message results from several thousand years of Greek, Roman, and Latin evolution. This is worth a celebration in itself. Since you are so appalled by other people’s religious celebration then you might as well as write in Arabic or any other language your narrow mind can accept since English in our country is intoduced by the English missionaries who are Christians. Now wouldn’t it be ’sacriligeous’ for you to write something like this in English?
Comment by sp — November 7, 2005 @ 1:55 pm
Selamat Deepa-Raya untuk semua warga Malaysia.
Now, someone please come and stone me to death for messing up with ‘tawheed’.
The real problem with our young Malaysians now is: they are more obsessed with ‘idealism’ than ‘reality’ - be it in religion, politic, social, culture, etc. We easily get offended when a non-Muslim says ‘assmualaikum’ or ‘ya, allah’ or ’selamat deepa-raya’ - but we’re more tolerable when a muslim ‘drink’ publicly (and yes, I mean it in a metaphorical way) or when he/she glorifies ‘filthy sex’ openly (do I have to give specific examples?).
To be an idealist is good, and ‘idealism’ itself is a diserable quality. But being perceptive and having the ability to balance things up are equally important.
Comment by Rem — November 7, 2005 @ 8:34 pm
ROTFLMAO
so whats the big deal with raya? raya comes from malaysian word. heck nobody know if its even from latin word.
so bunga raya, jalan raya, does that only comes to play after fasting? we already had kongsi raya(or gong xi raya) and nobody made a sound of it. all of a sudden, deepa raya causes this much of trouble? nobody ever said “raya” word is only limited to muslim, or did they?
YOU are the real insult. not the word.
Hey, if you want to be a closet Hindu, that is none of my business.
- MENJ
Comment by ayiesz — November 8, 2005 @ 10:54 am
What a disgrace to Malaysian Muslims.
Have you any idea where the word “Raya” came from? From the word “Raja”, which, if you had any common sense, originated in an Indian language (Sanskrit in this case).
Raya is just a word and making up the word “Deeparaya” isn’t even close to comparing the 2 festivals. It’s merely a sign that we’re celebrating them together.
You might as well condemn the usage of crescents in the Malaysian, Turkish and various other flags, as well as the Red Crescent, huh?. It was originally a symbol of a Greek moon goddess, but got incorporated into the Ottoman flag.
Bangsa Malaysia is a totally secular concept? The Khalifahs of old will be crying if they see such people like you… why did you think Islam had a Golden Age back then if not for racial harmony?
May Allah S.W.T open up your mind and heart to see the world. Amin.
Another example of a Liberal Islam advocate par excellence. Read the 07/11/05 update of this post. We cannot be bothered in wasting time with the likes of you. Re-educate yourself about your Deen.
The end.
- MENJ
Comment by mTk — November 8, 2005 @ 11:53 am
I do not entirely understand the statement made by the mufti. Is he saying that as muslims, during any other religous festival we are not allowed to in any way participate. No visiting friends or family (if you happen to have converted to Islam from another religion), no well wishing, no sending of greeting cards, nothing. I do not feel that wishing someone happy deepavali or visiting them during their religious celebration constitutes celebrating the festival. It is an act of ‘muhibbah’. It’s not like we are going to temples and praying.
In his statement he said in any way whatsoever. In Malaysia, all religous festivals are marked by a public holiday. Does this mean that we are not allowed to have the holiday as this can be constreud as celebrating the festival?. Please could someone expalain this to me?. I am not contradicting the mufti as he obviously knows more than I do but I am merely trying to understand his statement. I really wish that when a mufti makes a fatwa that it is made in a much clearer manner rather than just making a 100 word statement and then expect everyone to accept it without question. Granted that he is the authority in religion, but people want to know why?.
As for the word DeepaRaya. I do not think it means that we are celebrating the festivals together. It is just showing that the celebrations are occuring at more or less the same time. Like somebody already commented, you don’t see muslims going to temples or vice versa. So how is it that we are celebrating Deepavali ?.
Comment by theone — November 8, 2005 @ 9:40 pm
A standing ovation to fellow Malaysians who have commented previously. I’m so proud of you guys. I see JUSTICE! lol…
Well, MENJ have you got any rebuttals against critical comments over the radical but supposedly ‘critical’ thoughts of yours? I saw on the page “MENJ’s Critical Thoughts” and immediately I thought, what a joke! No offense but you are a disgrace to our country, your own religion which you thought you have so much understanding of, sacrilegious to English language, Bahasa Malaysia/Melayu , Islam and not to mention the other ethnic groups in Malaysia!
As well said by all the great people (irregardless their ethnicity and religious beliefs), “raya” is celebration. Even I know this! Why do you have to make such a big fuss outta this benign and harmful “DeepaRaya”? C’mon, it’s good to think and question but you’re trying too hard with your narrow perspective that it could sometimes get you cornered and trap - just like how you are ending up in this trap set by yourself.
I hope you do understand things and life much better now. Learn to appreciate, contribute before you can criticise. We don’t wanna have another May 15th tragedy or racial (or religious) riots often happen in other countries.
A tribute to all you people out there, viva!
Comment by DeathNgeL — November 9, 2005 @ 2:50 am
Perhaps MENJ’s flamboyant writing style causes people to completely miss the point he is making here.
I, for one, find it extremely uncomfortable, verging on the disrespectful/laughable, that my Eid-ul-Fitri is chained together with Deepavali, or Diwali.
Now before everyone gives knee-jerk reactions, which I think some of the above posts are, let me clarify my stand.
I have nothing against other religions, in fact I do enjoy the diversity of our country. I have many friends of other faiths, all of whom are very understanding of my views on this.
True, the word Raya can also mean celebrate, but if we are telling the truth here, in the context it is being used the word Raya IS synonymous with Eid-ul Fitri.
Now Eid-ul Fitri is a celebration of the worshippers after fasting for a month for the pleasure of the One God, ie monetheism.
Diwali, on he other hand, is the celebration of worship of several gods/goddesses, ie polytheism.
To clump together the two words, therefore, is meaningless, as one negates the other, and vice versa. And in monotheism, the concept of Unity of God is anathema to Polity of Gods. So at the very least, the term Deepa-Raya lends itself to ridicule.
On the sacriligeous point. Now if everyone really respects everybody else as we all claim to do (toleransi, semangat muhibbah, etc), surely when someone is offended it is better not to do it? I would never insult any Hindu god because I have respect for the people who are Hindus, and I do not want to hurt them. Similarly, I am very appreciative of people of other faiths respecting mine.
I am not against others celebrating the rites of their religion, for it is their God-given right (whether they believe in a God, or many Gods, or none at all) to worship as they please, for we humans have been given the power to choose. I cannot/will not force you to think as I do, or make the choices in religion that I made. But I do not prefer the rites of my religion be merged or submerged into that of another, the same way I know Christians in the USA or UK will find it either highly offensive/funny if one were to say to them Merry Eid-Christmas! Or Happy Easter-Diwali!
Now if I were to wish someone well, I would do it properly, with none of this wishy-washy ‘I wanna be seen as oh so tolerant’ nonsense. If someone says to me Happy DeepaRaya, I wonder if they really mean it or they are just paying lip service, just to show off their muhibbah-ness to others. (By the way, the word muhibbah derives from Arabic, the root word of which means love. So if you truly love thy neighbour as thou lovest thyself, shouldn’t that love be tempered with understanding and respect of other people’s point of view?)
Just a note: Hindus in Britain are deeply offended by the release of a postage stamp depicting a Hindu couple in adoration of the infant Jesus Christ. Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4420896.stm . No one accused the Hindus of being intolerant or bigots here. They said, and I quote: ‘the stamp was the equivalent of having a vicar in a dog collar kneeling down to the Hindu deity Lord Ram on a festival stamp.’
And personally, I support their views. Muhibbah does not mean assimilation, rather it means love and respect for our fellow human beings, be they co-religionists or not. It is okay to be different, as long as we can learn to live together.
Comment by A guest — November 10, 2005 @ 8:35 am
[…] I cited intolerance among some Muslims, examples being the bombing in New Delhi a few days before Deepavali, the content of MenJ’s blog that created lots of controversy, as well as the attitude of the Muslims in one of the DBKL flats in my constituency. […]
Pingback by Teresa Kok :: Deepa Raya :: November :: 2005 — November 11, 2005 @ 7:54 pm
Guest,
First of all Diwali is hardly a Religous Festival. It’s a celebration of the “triumph of Good over Evil”, based on the Ramayana MYTHOLOGY written by a poet named Valmiki!! And Eid El-Fitr is a celebration of the joy of completing one of the “Rukun Islam”. Neither celebration has any significant link to one’s Faith!!! Please correct this if I am wrong.
By the way, I see that you and few others here are conviniently stamping Hindu as polyethiest. If you read “Islamic Scholar” Dr. Zakir Naik (or Zakir N. as he addresses himself in middle east) says that Hinduism is actually a Monotheist religon. Even our MENJ here, if I am not mistaken has echoed Dr. Naik!!So please, choose your branding carefully!!
Why are you so concern on how Britons and Americans behave? Do we have to Ape them?
This is a secularist country. If you are so sensitive about the terms used by others to wish you, you can simply say that to your wisher. But to demand nation-wide acceptence of your opinion, is selfish!!! As long as we remain capitalist, as long as we remain a consumer-based comunity, these type of markerting schemes during festive season will continue. Just learn to live with it!!
I do not understand your reason of bringing up the hindu whinings in UK! Does two wrong make a right?
Comment by Shalini.S.N.Nair — November 12, 2005 @ 12:41 am
By the way, Hindus are such a strange breed!!! Outside India, they cry for “minority right” and “religous uniqness”. Sometimes back, the “Hindu American Foundation” in US filled a case against the display of Ten commandments in a court-house in Texas as the Ten Commandments contradicts the Hindu’s “Santana Dharma”!!!!(I personally support removal of Ten commandments from the govt. facility because of the principle of “separation of church and state”). But the interesting part is, nobody is forcing any one to recite Ten commandments or even follow them here, the mere presence of the commandments is perceived as “intimidation” by religious minorities in US.
At the same time, Sangh Parivar (probably the equivilant of “Umno Putra” of Malaysia, only they are not directly involved in politics) has no qualms about pushing “Saraswati Vandanam” or “Vande Mataram” down the throats of minorities in India. They too demand Christian women to wear “Kum Kum Pottu” and Muslim women to wear “Sari” to celebrate and preserve “Indian Culture”!!This is what I would call a hypocisy.
Comment by Shalini.S.N.Nair — November 13, 2005 @ 1:31 pm
To Shalini,
Bro (or Sister) Guest have eloquently reiterated MENJ’s stand on Deepa-Raya, and I, and other practicing muslims, wholly support this stand. As a Malaysian, your rights to adhere and practise your faith is guaranteed, as a Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. However, we muslims, protest on Deepa-Raya slogans, as it is a symbol of a compromise our monotheist religion to yours, or any other religion. To you, your religion/way of life, and to us, our own deen (way of life/religion).
Guest pointed an excellent example of the British Hindu’s protest over the stamp saga. They too wish to maintain the purity of their religion. That is the heart of this protest: to maintain the purity of our religion. To wish someone “Selamat Hari Raya†is akin to wish someone “Eid Mubarakâ€, and not “Selamat Jalan Raya, Selamat Kerja Raya†as other commentators have ridiculed. They argue without thinking only to reflect the depths of their intellects.
It’s a shame that you have espoused nothing but contradictions over Deepa-Raya. You mock our Islamic way of life (in your earlier comments about the sunnah of our beloved Prophet p.b.u.h) and yet, you cry to maintain muhibbah-ness for Deepa-Raya slogans. If you mock the Islamic way of life, that in itself an indication that you don’t respect Islam. So why bother preserving the Deepa-Raya slogans?
Let me restate the concept of Muhibbah: I respect your way of life, your faith, even though is a complete opposite to my faith, my way of life, and I expect the same of you. Respect does not mean that I compromise my faith, my beliefs for yours, nor I do demand that you compromise your beliefs for mine. Yet, we shall live in harmony out of respect.
Comment by liza — November 14, 2005 @ 10:56 am
Liza,
Me too!!
I assume you are reffering to my comment on the Yes†to Religious Harmony, “No†to Sacrifice of Religious Precepts If you read carefully, you would have noticed that that comment was meant to be a sarcastic reply to Racist Hater whose comment includes “racially harmonious” gems like I don’t give a damn to those kaffir and ignorance moslems who wish to please those morons kaffir and Pegi mampus dengan semua yang konon nak ambik hati si kafir dan dengan semua kafir yang tak reti tengok cermin.. So liza, tell me, is there any indication that Racist Hater is respecting other religon? Please give your opinion there!!I was just giving him back in the same tune!!
The phrase “Deepa-Raya” is nothing but advert-phare (probably coined by people in advert. business). It has nothing to do with religous believe of any religon. I myself did not (have not) used that phrase to wish either my hindu or friends. It is people like MENJ and Zainol (By the way notice the similarity of the picture on both blog?)who started to collect extra brownie point by making this a religon issue!!! It is not a religon issue. Malaysia is a secular nation. Non-Muslims have no need of you assurance that everybody gets the oppurtunity to practice religon. It is already stated so in the constituency!!! Don’t make it sound like you are doing favors to non-muslim by providing them some land to build temples!!! It’s their right as much as yours to practice your religon here. Practice your belief by all means. But don’t expect others to adhere to it too!!
Comment by Shalini.S.N.Nathan — November 14, 2005 @ 1:29 pm
[…] Rajan Seri Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi (MENJ), my good friend, has explained to me the background of his entry, which basically can be applied to all entries in his blog: […]
Pingback by Ada apa dengan ShinShin ? :: Deeparaya Revisited :: November :: 2005 — November 15, 2005 @ 2:38 pm
Did you perhaps mean “sacrilegious”?
Comment by hunterkiller — November 17, 2005 @ 11:57 pm
Ha ha ha!!! Here comes an English Pundit!! I’ve noticed the typo for some times now, but chose instead to close eyes. Any, thanks for correcting us all, Hunter
Comment by Shalini.S.N.Nair — November 18, 2005 @ 5:41 pm
They say stupidity is herederity.A good medicine for you would be a bottle of clorox and if that doesnt work, try rat poison. Youre dumn beyond belief.
Comment by Stand-In — November 18, 2005 @ 7:21 pm
Err… who are you reffering to?
Comment by Shalini.S.N.Nair — November 18, 2005 @ 7:35 pm
Haqq and Baatil can never be reconciled. Deepavali is Syirik and thus can never and should never be equated with Eid ul-Fitr. I question the aqeedah of the Muslim who thinks otherwise.
Comment by Al-Ikhlas — November 19, 2005 @ 8:24 am
Stand-In was reffering to Al-Ikhlas perhaps? :))
Comment by Shalini.S.N.Nair — November 19, 2005 @ 10:38 am
wat da f**k dis is confusing!
Comment by F***en Christian Haters! — November 21, 2005 @ 6:30 am
Good F***en Christian Haters!Stay confused!!!
Comment by Shalini.S.N.Nair — November 21, 2005 @ 10:11 pm
never ever argue with an idiot….they will bring u down to their level & beat u with experience.
Comment by unfana — November 26, 2005 @ 4:05 am
Hey guys, say hello to Chrismukkah!
Comment by johnleemk — November 29, 2005 @ 5:50 pm
all muslims go all the way to mecca,round and round the building to touch a stone and then throw stones at three pillars symbolising satan to purge your sins .what do u call that? isn’t that idolatry?
Comment by pritchard — January 15, 2006 @ 7:00 pm
u use everything from the kafir:language,food culture, fashion, technology,medicine,education,blood donation, disaster donation,taxes,and then spit on them,u are not a true muslim!u are a deviationist from the true islamic teaching .u tak sedar diri brother.jgn pi kfc,mcdonald,jgn pakai jeans, baju , dan semuanya yg kafir, adakah nabi muhamad hidup di planet islam dan membunuh semua kafir di dunia ini? dia menunjukan cara hidup dengan minda terbuka bukan nya macam u lah menj.u kene pi baca balik cara kehidupan nabi muhhamad.jihad bermakna berperang untuk nenukar perangai buruk kamu bukan berperang dan membunuh orang..
Comment by pritchard — January 15, 2006 @ 7:13 pm
menj,ur bloddy date is wronglah,please update ur date.its 2006 alreadylah,please wake us up from 2005.
Comment by pritchard — January 15, 2006 @ 7:15 pm